Clubhouse vs Podcasts
Episode Show Notes
Welcome to PodOn, the podcast where we share stories from other podcasters and talk with them about the challenges we all face when beginning the podcasting journey. If you are a podcaster, we would love to hear your story and your feedback. If you love this podcast, please subscribe and share it with your friends.
In this episode of PodOn, Julian and TJ talk about a very hot topic in the podcasting industry, Clubhouse! What is all the fuss about, how does it work and how can podcasts and Clubhouse work together? Will it take over the audio industry? Should I do my podcast in a Clubhouse format? Join this conversation to get the answers to these questions and learn why TJ and Julian definitely think Clubhouse and podcasts will be working together instead of competing against each other.
Jump straight into:
(00:52) - What is Clubhouse and why it’s received so much attention - “It was just such a great opportunity to get different people's perspectives on a particular topic.”
(02:37) - Clubhouse vs. podcasting? Will they be competing? - “I definitely think it has staying power, but I think there's going to be more of a complementary aspect to it.”
(03:44) - Team play! How podcasts and Cubhouse can complement each other - “Something that people can do is if you release on a Tuesday, having a Clubhouse on a Thursday or Friday to ask any outstanding questions. It really is just a good way to interact with your audience in real-time.”
(05:46) - Why Clubhouse can’t replicate what is done in a podcast format - “It’s like comparing Netflix to zoom and thinking that zoom is going to take over Netflix.”
(07:03) - Audio quality, disruptions, and other considerations - “You have to think if that is the best use of Clubhouse; just to have a conversation and talk at people versus the benefit of bringing others on stage to voice their opinions.”
(08:40) - The big takeaway: Make them work together! - “If you put your heart and soul into podcasting, you're going to see the benefits of that while working with your audience on Clubhouse.”
(09:40) - Julian and TJ’s predictions for the future of Clubhouse - “I think there's going to be an interesting way in which Clubhouse can tie into podcasting. For example, where you can do a Q&A and you can upload that directly to your podcasting feed.”
Resources
PodOn is hosted by TJ Bonaventura and Julian Lewis, founders of the full-service podcast company based in San Francisco, StudioPod. If you want more details on how to fully record and produce your podcast with our services, you can reach us at http://studiopodsf.com, send us an email at info@studiopodsf.com or contact us through our social media channels as @studiopodmedia.
Episode Transcript (via Rev.com)
TJ Bonaventura:
Clubhouse is great for continuing to build a community. I think they work together hand in hand, Clubhouse and podcasting. If you put it your heart and soul into podcasting, you're going to see the benefits of that with working with your audience on a Clubhouse. I don't want podcasters out there to think, "Okay, well now I don't have to worry about producing a show and go through the editing because now I can just put something directly on Clubhouse."
Julian Lewis:
This is the pod on podcast.
TJ Bonaventura:
We're your host, TJ Bonaventura, that's me, and Julian Lewis.
Julian Lewis:
That's me. As founders of a podcast media company, we had to start a podcast.
TJ Bonaventura:
So join us each episode as we and our guests drop knowledge on podcasting for you, the curious and scrappy podcaster. We are back with another episode of the pod on podcast. As always, we're the co-founders. He's Julian. I'm TJ. The dynamic duo. The best since Snoopy and Charlie Brown. We'll let you decide who's who. Julian, welcome back to the pod on podcast.
Julian Lewis:
Thank you for welcoming me to our show.
TJ Bonaventura:
You are always welcome to be on your own show.
Julian Lewis:
I love it. It's going to be back.
TJ Bonaventura:
Today, we're talking about a very hot topic within the podcasting industry, and something that we've gotten a lot from our clients, and that we've experienced as individuals, that is Clubhouse. And so we want to chat Clubhouse versus podcasting.
Julian Lewis:
Yeah.
TJ Bonaventura:
What is all the rage? How can they work together? And everything in between. So Julian, you and I recently were on a Clubhouse together, where we were both moderators. I want to get your overall experience-
Julian Lewis:
Yes.
TJ Bonaventura:
Of being on Clubhouse and how it can be interesting for the curious and scrappy podcaster.
Julian Lewis:
Yeah. It was a really great experience to talk with people. And we were talking specifically about something that actually wasn't podcasts related. We were talking about balance versus harmony, which I thought was awesome. It was just such a great opportunity to get different people's perspective on a particular topic. And the gents, from More In Common, put it on and allowed for us to be up there with them and moderate with them. And I thought they did a really good job because it not only allowed for, I think there was, five of us that kind of started the conversation, but you were able to pull in the audience to kind of have a conversation. So I was a really big fan of that experience, but yeah, I'll just leave it there for now. I'd love to kind of think about, or hear, what you have to say about your experience before I kind of dive into my thoughts versus podcasting.
TJ Bonaventura:
Well, I think we're starting to see a little bit of a shift with Clubhouse. When it first came out... And I was given access back in November of 2020, so I like to call myself an early adopter. Julian doesn't appreciate that, but I definitely was. I didn't really understand it, right? Because it just felt like open conversations that people were having. And some people were on there for four or five hours and people were constantly coming in and listening and chatting, and I didn't know who these people were, who were moderating. Were they experts? Were they just people who were passionate about the subject at hand? And so I didn't really see it as something that would compete with podcasting, other than it was just kind of a live stream of consciousness that people could participate in, in any conversation. And they would jump around from convo to convo.
TJ Bonaventura:
Now, we're starting to see more of a strategic approach with Clubhouse, and I still don't think it's going to be a replacement for podcasting. I definitely think it has staying power, but I think there's going to be more of a complimentary aspect to it. So we're dealing with this with a lot of our clients, Julian, we're getting a lot of folks who say, "How can we incorporate Clubhouse with what we're doing? We want to be able to allow our audience to ask us questions in real time," which is really the value of Clubhouse, in my opinion, is that interaction piece of it. So what can clients do from a complimentary standpoint? What can any... And not just our clients, just anybody in general.
Julian Lewis:
I think live access is key. You mentioned the ability for a host to engage with an audience. I think, that's key. One thing that [Kamala Avila-Salmon 00:04:02] hosted from Woke to Work did, she hosted a rap party. So I, as the producer, one of the producers on the show and her and a couple of guests, we just had a conversation about what the show meant to us and how the message of from Woke to Work and continue beyond the show. And in that instance, we didn't necessarily bring on anybody else to the stage to have a conversation, but I think it was an opportunity for people just to hear from her.
Julian Lewis:
And I think that was a great start, and I think it would be great for her to continue to have those types of conversations. Because then, she could start to add people to the stage and start to have conversations and almost take an Emmanuel Acho approach to uncomfortable conversations with a black man, and have those things live, and allow for her to have people express like, "Hey, I thought I was an ally, but now I realize I need to do more work. Let's talk about it."
TJ Bonaventura:
Yeah. I mean, that was such an interesting approach for you guys to take. I think it's something that someone can do at the end of each season. I think it's something that people can do at the... If you release on a Tuesday, then having a Clubhouse on a Thursday or Friday to asking the outstanding questions. It really is just a good way to interact with your audience in real time, over a set period within each week for only an hour. We constantly see, in the podcasting game, that there's a Q and A. All right, we're going to take questions and answers. We're going to take questions and we're going to answer them on the show. Well, why don't you just turn that and make it in real time and have people go to Clubhouse to answer it right there, because then you can have a back and forth discussion. There's follow ups. There's things that may be going out of context.
TJ Bonaventura:
I know some people don't really want to do that from podcasting perspective because, ultimately, they have a little bit more control in what they answer and what they don't. But it is a great way to be a little bit more in a real time atmosphere on Clubhouse. Now, the one thing that I do disagree with is that Clubhouse is going to be taken over podcasting. I don't think that this is going to be shocker from two guys who started a podcast production company. But I do think it's like comparing Netflix to Zoom and thinking that Zoom is going to take over Netflix. Podcast is still... Julian's smirking. You guys can't see it. He loves when I do these analogies. But honestly, podcasting, while a lot of the podcasting industry is focused on a conversational style podcast, an education style podcast, much of like what Julie and I are doing today, there is a large percentage of podcasting today that is focused on a narrative driven style show.
TJ Bonaventura:
Whether that's over the course of a series, much like we see with True Crime style podcast or just each individual episode telling a story about whoever it that's being interviewed. And that's something that Studio Pod has found our little mission. And so, that can't be replicated in my opinion on Clubhouse in real time. I mean, I think it potentially could. But, I think if you really want to dive in, and get your hands dirty, and have a narrator and really story tell the hell out of your guest, that's something that's going to be very, very difficult to do over Clubhouse, and is much more equipped to be successful on a medium like podcasting.
Julian Lewis:
Yeah. I don't hate your analogy as much as you think I do. But I think one of the things I liken it too, is saying that Twitter was going to take over the blog space. And I just definitely see it as compliments. One is macro versus micro content. And specifically, with podcasting, even if you do have an interview type show and you record that and you produce it as a podcast, that's great. But do you really want to bring somebody on stage who could potentially disrupt the flow of the conversation you're trying to have with your guest? That's something to think about. I think that you could definitely have a conversation or a part of your conversation that's recorded and then repurpose that for podcasting. But you have to think about is that the best use of Clubhouse, then? Just to have a conversation and talk at people versus the benefit of bringing people on stage to voice their opinions?
Julian Lewis:
And I think you can do a part one and a part two where you do that. But the one thing that I would caution with that is audio quality, right? It is a phone based platform. And so in order for you to ensure that you're getting at least decent quality audio, for us, when we connect, we're still using our Sure MB7s. We're just leveraging the audio interface that we have. And I have the PodTrak P4, and it's a great way for me to be able to connect my phone directly to it, and then I can record my voice as high audio quality. And if TJ has something similar on his end, he can still get that quality audio. But those are just some things you have to consider, and it takes a little bit more equipment and a little bit more planning to make sure you still get that quality.
TJ Bonaventura:
Yet. It's a great point. And I think, the big takeaway here for all of our listeners is, Clubhouse is great for continuing to build a community, right? I think they work together hand in hand, Clubhouse and podcasting. If you put it your heart and soul into podcasting, you're going to see the benefits of that, with working with your audience on a Clubhouse. I don't want podcasters out there to think, "Okay, well now I don't have to worry about producing a show and go through the editing because now I can just put something directly on Clubhouse." That is not going to create a successful show. That is going to be something that's ultimately, in my opinion, is set up for failure.
TJ Bonaventura:
So really consider how you can work the two together, intertwine them, with your overall brand strategy. Again, whether you're an individual, whether you're a company, it is a great way for you to engage with your audience in a whole new way. And so, as us, in the podcasting industry and having been here for a while now, we love of it. We want to see more of it. We want to get creative with this medium and see how the two can work together even further. But I mean, Julian, not to put you on the spot. Do you have any predictions for how Clubhouse and podcasting could potentially work together in the future?
Julian Lewis:
Yeah. Before I get into that prediction, the one thing that I do also want to say, when you were talking about people thinking it's going to replace it. I would challenge people who are trying to get into the audio landscape to think about, "What are one of the benefits of podcasting?" They're not live, right? So it lowers the barrier of entry, but it also allows for you to build your confidence over time, right? Because you're just talking into a microphone and yes, you might be on the other side of a screen using something like Squadcast, or Riverside, or whatever you're using to record a face to face interaction. But again, it's not live and it can be edited later. Whereas, in Clubhouse, if you build a large enough audience, there's people there live. Right?
Julian Lewis:
And so I think that, one of my predictions is, is that people are going to use it as an extension of their show. Not only to wrap up seasons, like we mentioned earlier, but also to have a conversation with a guest, record part of it, and then get feedback from the audience. And I think that feedback is going to do one of two things. It's going to extend the conversation of an episode, but it's also going to seed ideas for future episodes. Because if you're getting a certain type of question or similar types of questions that you haven't thought about as a topic on your podcast, then you have your content for your next episode. Create a story around that, create a narrative, interview somebody who's an expert on it. And then you're going to please your audience and continue to build that community.
TJ Bonaventura:
So what I think, really, is going to happen with Clubhouse is, I think there's going to be an interesting way where Clubhouse can tie into podcasting, where you can take a recording, whether through API or some sort of whole back end situation where you can do a Q and A for example, and you can upload that directly to your podcasting feed. I think there's some pros and cons of doing that, which we already mentioned. But I think if you're able to do that, it would allow for those recordings that, maybe not everybody within the audience that we're able to attend, to be able to listen to at some point in the future. That's my prediction. That's Julian's prediction. Again, we're Studio Pod. For any questions, please reach out to us info@studiopodsf.com and follow us.
TJ Bonaventura:
Every episode of the pod on podcast is produced and edited by Studio Pod Media. For more information about our work and our clients, go to studiopodsf.com.
TJ Bonaventura:
Shout out to Gary Oakland for the fire track.
Clubhouse is great for continuing to build a community. I think they work together hand in hand, Clubhouse and podcasting. If you put it your heart and soul into podcasting, you're going to see the benefits of that with working with your audience on a Clubhouse. I don't want podcasters out there to think, "Okay, well now I don't have to worry about producing a show and go through the editing because now I can just put something directly on Clubhouse."
Julian Lewis:
This is the pod on podcast.
TJ Bonaventura:
We're your host, TJ Bonaventura, that's me, and Julian Lewis.
Julian Lewis:
That's me. As founders of a podcast media company, we had to start a podcast.
TJ Bonaventura:
So join us each episode as we and our guests drop knowledge on podcasting for you, the curious and scrappy podcaster. We are back with another episode of the pod on podcast. As always, we're the co-founders. He's Julian. I'm TJ. The dynamic duo. The best since Snoopy and Charlie Brown. We'll let you decide who's who. Julian, welcome back to the pod on podcast.
Julian Lewis:
Thank you for welcoming me to our show.
TJ Bonaventura:
You are always welcome to be on your own show.
Julian Lewis:
I love it. It's going to be back.
TJ Bonaventura:
Today, we're talking about a very hot topic within the podcasting industry, and something that we've gotten a lot from our clients, and that we've experienced as individuals, that is Clubhouse. And so we want to chat Clubhouse versus podcasting.
Julian Lewis:
Yeah.
TJ Bonaventura:
What is all the rage? How can they work together? And everything in between. So Julian, you and I recently were on a Clubhouse together, where we were both moderators. I want to get your overall experience-
Julian Lewis:
Yes.
TJ Bonaventura:
Of being on Clubhouse and how it can be interesting for the curious and scrappy podcaster.
Julian Lewis:
Yeah. It was a really great experience to talk with people. And we were talking specifically about something that actually wasn't podcasts related. We were talking about balance versus harmony, which I thought was awesome. It was just such a great opportunity to get different people's perspective on a particular topic. And the gents, from More In Common, put it on and allowed for us to be up there with them and moderate with them. And I thought they did a really good job because it not only allowed for, I think there was, five of us that kind of started the conversation, but you were able to pull in the audience to kind of have a conversation. So I was a really big fan of that experience, but yeah, I'll just leave it there for now. I'd love to kind of think about, or hear, what you have to say about your experience before I kind of dive into my thoughts versus podcasting.
TJ Bonaventura:
Well, I think we're starting to see a little bit of a shift with Clubhouse. When it first came out... And I was given access back in November of 2020, so I like to call myself an early adopter. Julian doesn't appreciate that, but I definitely was. I didn't really understand it, right? Because it just felt like open conversations that people were having. And some people were on there for four or five hours and people were constantly coming in and listening and chatting, and I didn't know who these people were, who were moderating. Were they experts? Were they just people who were passionate about the subject at hand? And so I didn't really see it as something that would compete with podcasting, other than it was just kind of a live stream of consciousness that people could participate in, in any conversation. And they would jump around from convo to convo.
TJ Bonaventura:
Now, we're starting to see more of a strategic approach with Clubhouse, and I still don't think it's going to be a replacement for podcasting. I definitely think it has staying power, but I think there's going to be more of a complimentary aspect to it. So we're dealing with this with a lot of our clients, Julian, we're getting a lot of folks who say, "How can we incorporate Clubhouse with what we're doing? We want to be able to allow our audience to ask us questions in real time," which is really the value of Clubhouse, in my opinion, is that interaction piece of it. So what can clients do from a complimentary standpoint? What can any... And not just our clients, just anybody in general.
Julian Lewis:
I think live access is key. You mentioned the ability for a host to engage with an audience. I think, that's key. One thing that [Kamala Avila-Salmon 00:04:02] hosted from Woke to Work did, she hosted a rap party. So I, as the producer, one of the producers on the show and her and a couple of guests, we just had a conversation about what the show meant to us and how the message of from Woke to Work and continue beyond the show. And in that instance, we didn't necessarily bring on anybody else to the stage to have a conversation, but I think it was an opportunity for people just to hear from her.
Julian Lewis:
And I think that was a great start, and I think it would be great for her to continue to have those types of conversations. Because then, she could start to add people to the stage and start to have conversations and almost take an Emmanuel Acho approach to uncomfortable conversations with a black man, and have those things live, and allow for her to have people express like, "Hey, I thought I was an ally, but now I realize I need to do more work. Let's talk about it."
TJ Bonaventura:
Yeah. I mean, that was such an interesting approach for you guys to take. I think it's something that someone can do at the end of each season. I think it's something that people can do at the... If you release on a Tuesday, then having a Clubhouse on a Thursday or Friday to asking the outstanding questions. It really is just a good way to interact with your audience in real time, over a set period within each week for only an hour. We constantly see, in the podcasting game, that there's a Q and A. All right, we're going to take questions and answers. We're going to take questions and we're going to answer them on the show. Well, why don't you just turn that and make it in real time and have people go to Clubhouse to answer it right there, because then you can have a back and forth discussion. There's follow ups. There's things that may be going out of context.
TJ Bonaventura:
I know some people don't really want to do that from podcasting perspective because, ultimately, they have a little bit more control in what they answer and what they don't. But it is a great way to be a little bit more in a real time atmosphere on Clubhouse. Now, the one thing that I do disagree with is that Clubhouse is going to be taken over podcasting. I don't think that this is going to be shocker from two guys who started a podcast production company. But I do think it's like comparing Netflix to Zoom and thinking that Zoom is going to take over Netflix. Podcast is still... Julian's smirking. You guys can't see it. He loves when I do these analogies. But honestly, podcasting, while a lot of the podcasting industry is focused on a conversational style podcast, an education style podcast, much of like what Julie and I are doing today, there is a large percentage of podcasting today that is focused on a narrative driven style show.
TJ Bonaventura:
Whether that's over the course of a series, much like we see with True Crime style podcast or just each individual episode telling a story about whoever it that's being interviewed. And that's something that Studio Pod has found our little mission. And so, that can't be replicated in my opinion on Clubhouse in real time. I mean, I think it potentially could. But, I think if you really want to dive in, and get your hands dirty, and have a narrator and really story tell the hell out of your guest, that's something that's going to be very, very difficult to do over Clubhouse, and is much more equipped to be successful on a medium like podcasting.
Julian Lewis:
Yeah. I don't hate your analogy as much as you think I do. But I think one of the things I liken it too, is saying that Twitter was going to take over the blog space. And I just definitely see it as compliments. One is macro versus micro content. And specifically, with podcasting, even if you do have an interview type show and you record that and you produce it as a podcast, that's great. But do you really want to bring somebody on stage who could potentially disrupt the flow of the conversation you're trying to have with your guest? That's something to think about. I think that you could definitely have a conversation or a part of your conversation that's recorded and then repurpose that for podcasting. But you have to think about is that the best use of Clubhouse, then? Just to have a conversation and talk at people versus the benefit of bringing people on stage to voice their opinions?
Julian Lewis:
And I think you can do a part one and a part two where you do that. But the one thing that I would caution with that is audio quality, right? It is a phone based platform. And so in order for you to ensure that you're getting at least decent quality audio, for us, when we connect, we're still using our Sure MB7s. We're just leveraging the audio interface that we have. And I have the PodTrak P4, and it's a great way for me to be able to connect my phone directly to it, and then I can record my voice as high audio quality. And if TJ has something similar on his end, he can still get that quality audio. But those are just some things you have to consider, and it takes a little bit more equipment and a little bit more planning to make sure you still get that quality.
TJ Bonaventura:
Yet. It's a great point. And I think, the big takeaway here for all of our listeners is, Clubhouse is great for continuing to build a community, right? I think they work together hand in hand, Clubhouse and podcasting. If you put it your heart and soul into podcasting, you're going to see the benefits of that, with working with your audience on a Clubhouse. I don't want podcasters out there to think, "Okay, well now I don't have to worry about producing a show and go through the editing because now I can just put something directly on Clubhouse." That is not going to create a successful show. That is going to be something that's ultimately, in my opinion, is set up for failure.
TJ Bonaventura:
So really consider how you can work the two together, intertwine them, with your overall brand strategy. Again, whether you're an individual, whether you're a company, it is a great way for you to engage with your audience in a whole new way. And so, as us, in the podcasting industry and having been here for a while now, we love of it. We want to see more of it. We want to get creative with this medium and see how the two can work together even further. But I mean, Julian, not to put you on the spot. Do you have any predictions for how Clubhouse and podcasting could potentially work together in the future?
Julian Lewis:
Yeah. Before I get into that prediction, the one thing that I do also want to say, when you were talking about people thinking it's going to replace it. I would challenge people who are trying to get into the audio landscape to think about, "What are one of the benefits of podcasting?" They're not live, right? So it lowers the barrier of entry, but it also allows for you to build your confidence over time, right? Because you're just talking into a microphone and yes, you might be on the other side of a screen using something like Squadcast, or Riverside, or whatever you're using to record a face to face interaction. But again, it's not live and it can be edited later. Whereas, in Clubhouse, if you build a large enough audience, there's people there live. Right?
Julian Lewis:
And so I think that, one of my predictions is, is that people are going to use it as an extension of their show. Not only to wrap up seasons, like we mentioned earlier, but also to have a conversation with a guest, record part of it, and then get feedback from the audience. And I think that feedback is going to do one of two things. It's going to extend the conversation of an episode, but it's also going to seed ideas for future episodes. Because if you're getting a certain type of question or similar types of questions that you haven't thought about as a topic on your podcast, then you have your content for your next episode. Create a story around that, create a narrative, interview somebody who's an expert on it. And then you're going to please your audience and continue to build that community.
TJ Bonaventura:
So what I think, really, is going to happen with Clubhouse is, I think there's going to be an interesting way where Clubhouse can tie into podcasting, where you can take a recording, whether through API or some sort of whole back end situation where you can do a Q and A for example, and you can upload that directly to your podcasting feed. I think there's some pros and cons of doing that, which we already mentioned. But I think if you're able to do that, it would allow for those recordings that, maybe not everybody within the audience that we're able to attend, to be able to listen to at some point in the future. That's my prediction. That's Julian's prediction. Again, we're Studio Pod. For any questions, please reach out to us info@studiopodsf.com and follow us.
TJ Bonaventura:
Every episode of the pod on podcast is produced and edited by Studio Pod Media. For more information about our work and our clients, go to studiopodsf.com.
TJ Bonaventura:
Shout out to Gary Oakland for the fire track.
Julian Lewis:
Gary O.